Green Energy or Zero point

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Admin on Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:32 pm

Hi Glenn,
Thank you for the info. I shall take a look at those links. Looking forward to it, but already thinking about possibilities, for example, ambient heat adding to the energy budget.
You have obviously done quite a bit of research on this.

BR Harry

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Glenndk on Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:29 pm

Admin wrote:

That is REALLY interesting !!

...
BR Harry

Glenndk wrote:
Quote: "...Decreasing the input power to 30 picowatts, the team detected nearly 70 picowatts of emitted light..."

I hope you noted, that the efficiency seems to be about 233%.

Related information:

Stanford University (2010, August 2). New solar energy conversion process could double solar efficiency of solar cells. ScienceDaily:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100802101813.htm
Citat: "...
The process, called "photon enhanced thermionic emission," or PETE, could reduce the costs of solar energy production enough for it to compete with oil as an energy source
...
Melosh's group figured out that by coating a piece of semiconducting material with a thin layer of the metal cesium, it made the material able to use both light and heat to generate electricity
...
Melosh calculates the PETE process can get to 50 percent efficiency or more under solar concentration, but if combined with a thermal conversion cycle, could reach 55 or even 60 percent -- almost triple the efficiency of existing systems
..."

Youtube (60 minutes); look especially from 38 minutes:
2010, Stanford: Photon Enhanced Thermionic Emission:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTKEmm7hfgk

Photon-Enhanced Thermionic Emission in Cesiated p-Type and n-Type Silicon:
http://orbit.dtu.dk/files/103451996/paper30375.pdf

Production Method of Electrical Energy by Enhanced Thermal Electron Emission by the Use of Superior Semiconductors:
https://cordis.europa.eu/docs/results/308/308975/final1-prometheus-final-report-v1-0.pdf

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Admin on Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:58 pm

Experiments demonstrate a semiconductor device that emits more power as light than it takes in electrically. Physicists have known for decades that, in principle, a semiconductor device can emit more light power than it consumes electrically. Experiments published in Physical Review Letters finally demonstrate this in practice, though at a small scale.... wrote:Glenndk

That is REALLY interesting !!

If true then it means that one of the following must be true:

1 - the law of conservation of energy is false (and perpetual motion becomes possible :-)
2 - there is yet another source of energy involved, one that we have yet to discover?
3 - there is an error in the measurement of the output light energy, or the input energy
4 - divine intervention, although a creator would probably not frivolously waste effort to confuse humans (we succeed in that without assistance :-)

I would be more inclined to believe the third, but I do not totally exclude the first two without proof.

BR Harry

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Glenndk on Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:27 am

Jalex2 wrote:Hi All
I have played around with a lot of this stuff and still don't 
know what is really going on  After weeding out the obvious 
Fakes There seems to be a few circuits that actually work.

Hi all

These works, but not exactly zero-point energy :-)

LED energy harvest heat so total emitted light energy is more than 100% of the supplied electricity:

February 27, 2012, physics.aps.org: Synopsis: Optical Device is More Than 100% Efficient:
https://physics.aps.org/synopsis-for/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.097403
Quote: "...
Experiments demonstrate a semiconductor device that emits more power as light than it takes in electrically.
Physicists have known for decades that, in principle, a semiconductor device can emit more light power than it consumes electrically. Experiments published in Physical Review Letters finally demonstrate this in practice, though at a small scale.
The energy absorbed by an electron as it traverses a light-emitting diode is equal to its charge times the applied voltage. But if the electron produces light, the emitted photon energy, which is determined by the semiconductor band gap, can be much larger. Usually, however, most electrons create no photon, so the average light power is less than the electrical power consumed. Researchers aiming to increase the power efficiency have generally tried to boost the number of photons per electron. But Parthiban Santhanam and co-workers from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge took a gentler approach, achieving power enhancement even though less than one electron in a thousand produced a photon.
The researchers chose a light-emitting diode with a small band gap, and applied such small voltages that it acted like a normal resistor. With each halving of the voltage, they reduced the electrical power by a factor of 4, even though the number of electrons, and thus the light power emitted, dropped by only a factor of 2. Decreasing the input power to 30 picowatts, the team detected nearly 70 picowatts of emitted light. The extra energy comes from lattice vibrations, so the device should be cooled slightly, as occurs in thermoelectric coolers.
These initial results provide too little light for most applications. However, heating the light emitters increases their output power and efficiency, meaning they are like thermodynamic heat engines, except they come with the fast electrical control of modern semiconductor devices. – Don Monroe
..."

Parthiban Santhanam, Dodd Joseph Gray, Jr., and Rajeev J. Ram. Phys. Rev. Lett. 108, 097403 – Published 27 February 2012. Thermoelectrically Pumped Light-Emitting Diodes Operating above Unity Efficiency:
http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v108/i9/e097403
https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.097403

-

Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "A new way to harness waste heat: Electrochemical approach has potential to efficiently turn low-grade heat to electricity." ScienceDaily:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140521133611.htm
Quote: "...
Since the voltage of rechargeable batteries depends on temperature, the new system combines the charging-discharging cycles of these batteries with heating and cooling, so that the discharge voltage is higher than charge voltage. The system can efficiently harness even relatively small temperature differences, such as a 50 degrees Celsius difference.
...
In a demonstration with waste heat of 60 degrees Celsius the new system has an estimated efficiency of 5.7 percent.
..."

-

Heat to electrical energy?:

Feb 6, 2017, Water evaporation generates electrical energy:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2017/feb/06/water-evaporation-generates-electrical-energy
Qoute: "...
The team then connected four of their devices in series to create a power source that can deliver about 380 nA at 4.8 V – which was enough to drive a liquid-crystal display. The team says that the performance of the device could be enhanced by optimizing the streaming and evaporation processes.
..."

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Glenndk on Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:23 am

Jalex2 wrote:Hi
I think an old crystal radio is pretty close to a zero point energy device. 

Yes - ok not exactly zero-point energy:

A "Free-Power", Batteryless, One-Transistor AM Radio that works off of AC hum and 'spherics:
http://web.archive.org/web/20071217210930/www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/nopower.htm
http://www.ke3ij.com/nopower.htm

Quantum dot as thermal rectifier:
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/10/8/083016
Quote: "...
In this paper, we compare thermovoltage and conductance measurements on a gate-defined QD in the CB regime. In high magnetic fields, applied in the plane of the two-dimensional electron gas (2DEG), a suppression of carrier transport is observed for certain single electron tunneling (SET) resonances. The corresponding thermoelectric signal exhibits a strong asymmetry which cannot be explained simply by considering the semiclassical Mott relation [8]. An analysis of this asymmetry reveals that the QD acts as a thermoelectric rectifier.
...
The change of the line shape for the thermopower is direct evidence that the QD acts as a thermal rectifier.
...
4. Summary
In summary, we have demonstrated that in a QD, asymmetric coupling to its leads not only modifies the charge transport, but also strongly modifies its thermal properties. If the QD design is such that transport is favorable through states with nonzero orbital momentum, high effective thermal rectifying properties can be obtained. In contrast to the previously reported nanotube based thermal rectifiers [4], QDs directly control the heat transfer in the electronic system, without the need for additional coupling to the phonon system. This opens the perspective of more sophisticated electronic devices with high rectifying performances.
..."
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/10/8/083016/pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_dot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonon

Paywalled:
Recipe for optimizing a solid-state thermal rectifier:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1290072916305506
Quote: "...
Our results provide clarity for experimentalists regarding suitable combinations. Applying the method with a sample database shows that a Si-Ce system exhibits the largest rectification with R = 1.61 although, since Ce easily oxidizes in air, manufacturing a Si-Fused SiO2 rectifier with R = 1.37 may be more reasonable. We show that contacts made to a binary rectifier for either characterization or integration into a device can negatively impact device performance.
..."

The design of a thermal rectifier:
http://perso.ens-lyon.fr/michel.peyrard/ARTICLES/eplrectif.pdf
Quote: "...
Abstract.
– The idea that one can build a solid-state device that lets heat flow more easily in one way than in the other, forming a heat valve, is counter-intuitive. However, the design of a thermal rectifier can be easily understood from the basic laws of heat conduction. Here we show how it can be done. This analysis exhibits several ideas that could in principle be implemented to design a thermal rectifier, by selecting materials with the proper properties.
In order to show the feasibility of the concept, we complete this study by introducing a simple model system that meets the requirements of the design.
..."

-

Related:

Among other: Thermal rectifier possible with single-molecule?:

Jun 4, 2015, Single-molecule diode has record-breaking current:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2015/jun/04/single-molecule-diode-has-record-breaking-current

December 20, 2012, Discovery of Magnetic Field That Can Flip Heat Flow:
http://scitechdaily.com/discovery-of-magnetic-field-that-can-flip-heat-flow/
Quote: "...
The scientists published their findings in the journal Nature. Physicist Brian Josephson predicted the existence of a tunnel between superconductors separated by a thin layer of an insulator in 1962, a process that is forbidden in classical physics. The Josephson junction was built and used to make superconducting quantum interference devices (SQUIDs) that are sold as ultra-sensitive magnetometers.
...
The device worked by partly reversing heat transfer, so that some would flow from the colder body to the warmer one. This is a counter-intuitive process and a device with Josephson junctions imposes a quantum order upon it.
The violation of the second law of thermodynamics, stating that heat will always flow from a hotter body to a colder one, is possible because only part of the total heat flow is subjected to the phase variation. When the heat transferred by single electrons is taking into account, the net flow is still from the hot end to the cold end.
..."


Apr 3, 2009 Physicists have another go at Maxwell’s Demon:
https://web.archive.org/web/20091231100801/http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/38569
https://physicsworld.com/a/physicists-have-another-go-at-maxwells-demon/
Quote: "...
“Our one-way barrier acts to put all the atoms into a subsection of the original container. In essence this is the same as the original demon, since the point is that the demon can apparently reduce the entropy of the gas,” Steck told physicsworld.com.
...
“The original motivation was to come up with the analog of a diode for cold atoms, said Steck. “This could yield a nice way to direct the motion of atoms, for example, to shuttle atoms around on a chip-sized trap for potential realizations of quantum computers.”
..."

-

Jul 27, 2011 Spinons take the heat:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160822192805/http://physicsworld.com:80/cws/article/news/2011/jul/27/spinons-take-the-heat
Citat: "...
An international group of researchers has measured, for the first time, the phenomenon of spin–charge separation in bulk in a solid. They also found that the material violates the empirical Wiedemann–Franz law that has held true for more than 150 years.
...
The dramatic departure from the Wiedemann–Franz law occurs in purple bronze because when a holon comes across an impurity in the chain of atoms its motion is reflected – that is, it cannot navigate around or through the impurity. But the spinon can tunnel through the impurity and then continue along the chain. Because the spinons carry heat and the holons carry charge, the heat is conducted easily along the chain but charge is not.
..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinon
Quote: "...
Spinons are one of three quasiparticles, along with holons and orbitons, that electrons in solids are able to split into during the process of spin–charge separation, when extremely tightly confined at temperatures close to absolute zero.[1] The electron can always be theoretically considered as a bound state of the three, with the spinon carrying the spin of the electron, the orbiton carrying the orbital location and the holon carrying the charge, but in certain conditions they can become deconfined and behave as independent particles.
..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holon_(physics)



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Big Bang - and virtual particles

Post by Glenndk on Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:02 am

You are all completely missing the gigantic Big Bang point :-)

Big Bang was (hypothetically) an event where "our" universe was made from nothing (zero-point energy?).

How can it be that physicists blesses this event; "nothing" created "our" universe :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang#Timeline
Quote: "...
This primordial singularity is itself sometimes called "the Big Bang",[20] but the term can also refer to a more generic early hot, dense phase[21][notes 1] of the universe. In either case, "the Big Bang" as an event is also colloquially referred to as the "birth" of our universe since it represents the point in history where the universe can be verified to have entered into a regime where the laws of physics as we understand them (specifically general relativity and the standard model of particle physics) work.
..."

-

Scientists has actually also made something from nothing - here from virtual particles :-)

Nov 17, 2011, phys.org: Scientists create light from vacuum:
http://phys.org/news/2011-11-scientists-vacuum.html
Citat: "...
Scientists at Chalmers University of Technology have succeeded in creating light [ foton particles ] from vacuum – observing an effect first predicted over 40 years ago
...
In fact, the vacuum is full of various particles that are continuously fluctuating in and out of existence. They appear, exist for a brief moment and then disappear again. Since their existence is so fleeting, they are usually referred to as virtual particles
...
By changing the direction of the magnetic field several billions of times a second the scientists were able to make the “mirror” vibrate at a speed of up to 25 percent of the speed of light
...
"Relatively little energy is therefore required in order to excite them out of their virtual state. In principle, one could also create other particles from vacuum, such as electrons or protons, but that would require a lot more energy."
..."

.

Why don't they make antimatter particles? This is much more useful for space traveling. :-)

.

Why don't they make "exotic" particles which is way better for space traveling? (literally to shortcut through space-time) :-) :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive
Quote: "...
The proposed mechanism of the Alcubierre drive implies a negative energy density and therefore requires exotic matter.
..."

Webarchive backup: Eric W. Davis, Ph.D.: Wormhole-Stargates: Tunneling Through The Cosmic Neighborhood:
http://web.archive.org/web/20061010170245/www.nidsci.org/pdf/davis_mufon2001.pdf
Quote: "...
2.5 Designing a Stargate
...
We construct such a stargate by generating a thin-shell or surface layer (like a thin film of soap stretched across a loop of wire) of exotic matter-energy possessing a radius of curvature on each side of the surface, and work this through the Einstein equations (8,16). The result is that the surface energy density and surface tensions of the exotic matter-energy are negative as required (Section 2.1), but they are inversely proportional to the surface radii of curvature.
..."


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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Guest on Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:19 pm

Hello
Newbie here.
If you find this thing interesting you might like Newman's_energy_machine. I live in the village where he chose to build his lab so am aware of it. It is probably not known much outside the locale community.

wikipedia.org/wiki/Newman's_energy_machine

I worked with a mechanical engineer who was asked to evaluate the "Newman energy machine".
He had 3 thing to tell Mr Newman. First law of physics "you can't win", second law of physics "you can't break even", third law of physics "you are going to lose".
Newman's response was "unseen forces at work here, the copper is losing mass, the mass is being converted to energy. You know that E = MC squared thing.". According to  Newman it was such a small amount we couldn't measure it?

You might find the wiki article interesting. He had investors build him a lab and supply the needed materials to continue his experiments.
Wonder what happened to Joe? Very Happy

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Glenndk on Thu May 10, 2018 7:25 pm

A corona (DC!) motor can be 95% efficient - and run on atmospheric electricity:

The Earth's Atmosphere As a source for Electric Power. William Aston:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150128112026/http://www.kathodos.com/atmospherepower.pdf
Quote: "...
[pdf-page 4]
...
A modern version of the Poggendorff Corona motor utilizes a cylinder rotor instead of a disk. This particular motor was operated from charges of the earth's electric field. Dr. Jefimenko and Mr. Walker performed the experiment from the top of the Engineering Building using an antenna suspended from a baloon
..."

Youtube: How to Make Corona Motor (v2) aka Electrostatic Motor/Atmospheric Motor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uEjXsX1F14

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge

Related efficient ion motor:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodeless_plasma_thruster
https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektrodel%C3%B8s_plasma-motor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_Specific_Impulse_Magnetoplasma_Rocket
https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/VASIMR

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Ivan on Fri May 04, 2018 6:22 am

Hi Jalex,
the matter is not as simple, if not impossible.
The old crystal radio makes its energy ouptput from the transmitter it is tuned to. A wideband detector can make use of more transmitters simultaneously. Imagine all transmitters on the Earth are switched off - the crystal detector output drops almost to zero. The small rest gets its energy from storms and cosmic radiation in this case. Nothing miraculous.
I did not find whether N. Tesla ever demonstrated his car on long distances (hundreds of miles). Demonstrations on a factory yard could be a magician's trick, using a hidden powerful Tesla coil. He was able to manufacture them, no wonder.
The static electricity takes is (small) energy from mechanical movement. If one stands on a carpet, no energy accumulates. When he walks, a small part of the mechanical energy transforms into charge accumulated in his body. No mystery.

What is your opinion: Someone wants to kill all the mankind by making him to continue the combustion of fossil fuels, although he knows a clean solution? Who? Why?

BR from Ivan

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Jalex2 on Thu May 03, 2018 2:51 pm

Hi
Thanks for the replies
I read some where that the laws of Thermal Dynamics once had formulas that showed  how to access zero point energy but they were later taken out. 
I think an old crystal radio is pretty close to a zero point energy device. 
I also believe that Nicola Tesla knew how to do these things but its also possible that the technical data he was working with did not have things removed from it.  
I don't believe in perpetual motion or energy from nothing ether but if you can measure the input and out put accurately the gain has to be coming from the vacuum around us or zero point.  

  Lets go way out there and say if there are aliens here on earth the only way they could have gotten here is by using this zero point energy so we need to talk to them to find out how they do it lol
A good example of zero point energy I think is very simple. When you walk across a fresh new carpet and reach for the door knob. There is over a 100,000 volts there with very low currant.  Free energy is not impossible it's just something we don't understand.  They don't teach us these things because they don't want us to know.

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Admin on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:39 pm

Jalex2 wrote:Hi All
...
After weeding out the obvious 
Fakes There seems to be a few circuits that actually work.
...
So was something taken out of our 
study material or is there something I have been missing.
Hi again Alex,

Very occasionally you see something that makes you wonder. Nearly all the videos on Youtube I can easily dismiss as obvious hoaxes, but what about this machine? There are loads of videos, one even locked in a sealed metal chamber for days, with no external forces (visible).
Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9XmRKR2S-o
Explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD3yft0XKIw

Some that are really well made are like this: The rotating coil generated DC because the magnet is a single-pole magnet  Exclamation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR6Qait2JGY

And here is a really brave guy. Really convincing, but shows a rather obvious method of cheating :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_aa02IigVE

So I guess your original post was after seeing something "special" on the web? Care to share it?
(This kind of surfing is kinda adictive  Surprised)

BR Harry - SM0VPO

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by zsolt on Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:44 pm

Ivan wrote:Hi all,
"will never pay for the sun !" - are you sure??   Evil or Very Mad  Maybe those who refuse to pay a SunTax will be forced to live in a perpetual darkness in future.
I do not believe in perpetuum mobile. There is one important point, though: an integral consists of a function plus a constant. The constant is usually neglected resp. considered to be always zero. Why? For the sake of simplification? If nonzero constants were considered, math models would be more complicated, but they might reflect the reality more exactly.
This is philosophy and high maths, nothing for me.

BR from Ivan
Maybe those who impose sun tax will be banned  Mad  . Until they come up with a working perpetuum

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Ivan on Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:28 am

Hi all,
"will never pay for the sun !" - are you sure??   Evil or Very Mad  Maybe those who refuse to pay a SunTax will be forced to live in a perpetual darkness in future.
I do not believe in perpetuum mobile. There is one important point, though: an integral consists of a function plus a constant. The constant is usually neglected resp. considered to be always zero. Why? For the sake of simplification? If nonzero constants were considered, math models would be more complicated, but they might reflect the reality more exactly.
This is philosophy and high maths, nothing for me.

BR from Ivan

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by zsolt on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:00 pm


How do you know that time is not slowing down, to a point of reversal, after which the universe will go backwards in time and space to a "Big Crunch"?
The future could have an ending, some time in the past!  affraid

it could be something about it , it's already written even in the bible that " I am the beginning and the ending , the alfa and the omega .." 
It wouldn't bother me to get younger not older  anyway , but for the moment  this heavy rotation perpetuum  looks like is playing in forward . 

Good night

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Admin on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:50 pm

zsolt wrote:
Admin wrote:It is perpetual motion that I believe to be impossible - movement / energy without any input. According to the basic laws of conservation of energy, it cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another. I am very sceptic about any form of movement-without-end, or energy with no input.

The only thing i know that moves-without-end is  : time . It never starts and it never end's ,but we acknowledge that it passes ,   it's so simple  bounce
Ahaa!!
How do you know that time is not slowing down, to a point of reversal, after which the universe will go backwards in time and space to a "Big Crunch"?
The future could have an ending, some time in the past!  affraid


Oh, oh! Sorry, better not start that sort of thing here. Already had this conversation on Twitter  Twisted Evil

Goodnight, and thanks to you both for some interesting and thought-provoking ideas tonight :-)

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by zsolt on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:39 pm

Admin wrote:Hi Zsolt,
I agree totally, the Internet is an excellent medium for changing the meanings of well established words. Interpretation often becomes difficult.

> No matter what I read, I always believe that "free energy" is energy that is already there waiting to be harvested, such as the Sterling engine, or the Foucault Pendulum.

In this statement I also include wind and solar panels: unused energy waiting to be gathered, harvested. I used to build 40-Watt solar panels and I have now have a bunch of 4-Ampere cells waiting to be assembled into an 80-Watt panel. I am missing only one component: time.

It is perpetual motion that I believe to be impossible - movement / energy without any input. According to the basic laws of conservation of energy, it cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another. I am very sceptic about any form of movement-without-end, or energy with no input.

Very best regards from Harry - SM0VPO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIPuGa7byk8  Laughing Razz lol!

The only thing i know that moves-without-end is  : time . It never starts and it never end's ,but we acknowledge that it passes ,   it's so simple  bounce
Ps : if you plan to build and not to buy an MPPT charger , i have to share an "elaborated" schematic i managed to make up in the  2 years (time again) that passed . Maybe it can be further more elaborated .

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Admin on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:27 pm

Hi Zsolt,
I agree totally, the Internet is an excellent medium for changing the meanings of well established words. Interpretation often becomes difficult.

> No matter what I read, I always believe that "free energy" is energy that is already there waiting to be harvested, such as the Sterling engine, or the Foucault Pendulum.

In this statement I also include wind and solar panels: unused energy waiting to be gathered, harvested. I used to build 40-Watt solar panels and I have now have a bunch of 4-Ampere cells waiting to be assembled into an 80-Watt panel. I am missing only one component: time.

It is perpetual motion that I believe to be impossible - movement / energy without any input. According to the basic laws of conservation of energy, it cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another. I am very sceptic about any form of movement-without-end, or energy with no input.

Very best regards from Harry - SM0VPO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIPuGa7byk8  Laughing Razz lol!

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by zsolt on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:48 pm

Hi  , 
Maybe  people writing things on the internet confuse terms , i think it depends on what you consider under  term free energy , and what you consider a perpetum mobile . For me free energy is that energy that i not pay a bill for it. And don't think  at the way that Harry's neighbor is achieving this Smile  . I think about sun, wind .... things like this 
For example i use a 100 W solar panel on my balcony , since it gets sun (in medium) ~3 hours/day in winter  and ~8 hours/day in summer you can calculate that is it's not much kWh/year , but i'm not paying. Of course you may say that i had to buy the panel so that's not  free , but when installed , from that point every Wh i get from the lovely sun is free. And like Harry's neighbor not paying for it Smile .  An will never pay for the sun ! 
Things that don't convert some sort of energy in the humanly usable form, and assume to produce for me any kind of energy from nothing are called a perpetum mobile (and there are 2 types of it as i remember....) . Thing's like this are often tagged with the term of ''free'' energy . I think this makes some confusion in the mass. 
And an other thing i don't feel right about when this subject is up, is when i hear the phrase that 'theory doesn't match with practice', this is not true, i never experienced that . "Theory doesn't match exactly practice" that's an other thing , many theoretical models are formulated in consideration of simplification, or even with not taking (/or knowing at all ) in account all the facts that go with the process , so of course that the practical result will be different from the theory . That doesn't mean that the theory was not good , i would rather say a phrase  like  "the theory did not approximate well what will happen "

(i know that it's a lot of philosophize but this 2 things bother me on the internet, so had to come out  Smile  )

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Admin on Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:40 pm

Hi Alex,
Thank you for the link ad the info. It looks like a rather comprehensive list of many of the free-energy systems. I have downloaded them and I will read them when I am next on the plane to Spain.

No matter what I read, I always believe that "free energy" is energy that is already there waiting to be harvested, such as the Sterling engine, or the Foucault Pendulum.

No such thing as output with no input, but some of the published attempts are extremely ingenious.

A guy once came to visit me, and flew from another country for the day, to discuss his ideas for a self-powered city. All the ideas he had would harvest energy, but nothing on the scale needed to actually power or heat anything.

For example, he showed me this drawing (good start):

Then he proposed building a giant version of this 1-turn alternator with a really thick wire, then by stepping-up the output with a transformer, feeding another step-up transformer, feeding another ... he hoped to get enough to power a whole city.

To be quite honest, I admire people like that; people who take a proven fact and try to "run" with it. Without that sort of person the aeroplane would never have been invented. But even with a good and vivid imagination, you sometimes need to speak to engineers who have more knowledge.

In my mind there is only one form of "free energy". Take a 100m roll of cable, fit a plug and socket to the ends, then plug it into the neighbours garden lamp-post outlet Smile  The easiest way of getting energy is to work and earn $2, and then buy 1KW of the stuff.

Having written that, and added a bit of joviality, I must add that I am still open to ideas and listening to anyone who is serious. I am certain that there are forces in this universe that we have yet to discover, or techniques that have not been considered or even recognised.

Very best regards from Harry - SM0VPO

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Jalex2 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:49 pm

Hi Harry
https://sites.google.com/site/aferlab/home/patrick-kelly---a-practical-guide-to-free-energy-devices

I have played with a lot of these devices  including the Cold Electricity ideas 
I have read that with cold electricity an amp meter will not register and if there is no current
flowing in a circuit I don't see how it can do anything. Everything we learned in school doesn't 
seem to apply here. also the advanced Joule Thief circuits  A very simple circuit that is supposed to be 
over unity but when I tried to get it to power it self it acted just like all our books say it will. 
I am going to study it more as well.

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Admin on Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:30 pm

Hi Alex,
It is indeed an interesting problem, and one I have never even thought about. A good explanation of the problem is given at :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

"Physics currently lacks a full theoretical model for understanding zero-point energy; in particular the discrepancy between theorized and observed vacuum energy is a source of major contention."
...
"A popular proposal that attempts to address this issue is to say that the fermion field has a negative zero-point energy while the boson field has positive zero-point energy and thus these energies somehow cancel each other out."
...
"This discrepancy is known as the cosmological constant problem and it is one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in physics."


I will have to do some reading about this since it looks really interesting.
Was your question prompted by any specific working experiment (not faked)? Do you have a link?


The only "plausible" permanent-magnet motor I have ever seen that defies physics is this, but or course, I still have strong doubts (total disbelief, actually):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus
"Something for nothing" I feel is still not possible, whatever the theory behind it.


BR Harry - SM0VPO

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Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Jalex2 on Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:45 pm

Hi All
I am sure there are many engineers that come here.
I have played around with a lot of this stuff and still don't 
know what is really going on  After weeding out the obvious 
Fakes There seems to be a few circuits that actually work.
Of course I went to the same schools you did and learned 
thermal dynamics but when I investigated things like cold
electricity , Permanent magnet motors, and other free energy
devices I never saw any indication of something defying the laws
of Physics or Thermal Dynamics and they followed what I 
learned in school exactly. So was something taken out of our 
study material or is there something I have been missing. 

I would like your views one what you think about all this.

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